John Gove: Still Some Work to Do

Might be worth noting that Joe Smith reported we inquired on Shattenkirk. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it given the reported salary from the deal he rejected at the deadline. If we can get him for anything under 6 I could be for it but I have my doubts. TJ and Palat are the priority at present and with $23M in space we could make it work but we don't want to jump back into cap trouble.

All of that said, I trust in the Yzerplan

Do we expect Johnson to sign a similar deal as Oshie with the Caps? Between 5 and 6 million for 6 years +? Or will he go more for Kucherov money and short term?

I think Yzerman signs Johnson for around 4-5 years at a higher cap hit around 5.5M and signs Palat for 6-7 years with a cap hit around 5.25M. I think Johnson gets a shorter deal due to the amount of Centers in the Lightning system that will eventually be vying for playing time. But I also think they might start Johnson out on the RW with Palat LW and Point as the Center as TJ can play RW as well. Going to be interesting to see how everything shakes out.

Just want to know how much lightning land values foote

Would jvr be enough?

If not what else, maybe marincin to fill in the left side defensive depth, what would take, honestly?

Do we expect Johnson to sign a similar deal as Oshie with the Caps? Between 5 and 6 million for 6 years +? Or will he go more for Kucherov money and short term?
- DutchSenators

Kucherov got a bridge because he was young enough. Johnson and Palat would be UFA so bridge wouldn't really work. As long as they are signed to a fair cap hit they should be movable too. What I mean by that is even if they sign for 5 years it could still be essentially mean 2 more years for the lightning. The Kucherov extension is kind of the time bomb on the salary cap so they have 2 years to get it done as is before they're forced to make cuts

Kucherov got a bridge because he was young enough. Johnson and Palat would be UFA so bridge wouldn't really work. As long as they are signed to a fair cap hit they should be movable too. What I mean by that is even if they sign for 5 years it could still be essentially mean 2 more years for the lightning. The Kucherov extension is kind of the time bomb on the salary cap so they have 2 years to get it done as is before they're forced to make cuts
- YuenglingJagr

This is not entirely true because Callahan will be coming off the books the year after kuch gets his big contract. Wont surprise me at all if he gets trades in the last year of his deal as a salary dump to make room for Kuch. Id be surprised if SY gives him any more then his current contract plus Callahans deal, considering that would be over 10 mill. I think SY ultimate plan is to get him to take the same deal Stammer did (optimistic i know) which i think would work well for the team.

This is not entirely true because Callahan will be coming off the books the year after kuch gets his big contract. Wont surprise me at all if he gets trades in the last year of his deal as a salary dump to make room for Kuch. Id be surprised if SY gives him any more then his current contract plus Callahans deal, considering that would be over 10 mill. I think SY ultimate plan is to get him to take the same deal Stammer did (optimistic i know) which i think would work well for the team.
- headyhedman77

I agree we are fine with Kucherov and his resign, don't know why so many think we won't be able to afford him. Callahan's NMC becomes I think a 12team no trade list the last two of his deal. I am sure Stevie Y will move Callahan if he needs the cap space for Kuch. Cally's 5.8 + Kuch's 4.76 = 10.56M

But we need to see how Kucherov performs over the next two years to dictate his salary. If he stays a point per game producer and his numbers rival that of Stamkos over the next two years I think he will get 8.5 - 9.5. If he goes to the next step and say gets to a 90-100 point player then 10.5 Patrick Kane here we come. I also think that the deals both Leon Draisaitl and Connor McDavid sign this summer will dictate other young player salaries going forward.

Just want to know how much lightning land values foote

Would jvr be enough?

If not what else, maybe marincin to fill in the left side defensive depth, what would take, honestly?
- BrainSap

Hard to put real value on a guy who has been with the organization for less than 72 hours.

Even harder to trade him for a guy that has left your organization.

I agree we are fine with Kucherov and his resign, don't know why so many think we won't be able to afford him. Callahan's NMC becomes I think a 12team no trade list the last two of his deal. I am sure Stevie Y will move Callahan if he needs the cap space for Kuch. Cally's 5.8 + Kuch's 4.76 = 10.56M

But we need to see how Kucherov performs over the next two years to dictate his salary. If he stays a point per game producer and his numbers rival that of Stamkos over the next two years I think he will get 8.5 - 9.5. If he goes to the next step and say gets to a 90-100 point player then 10.5 Patrick Kane here we come. I also think that the deals both Leon Draisaitl and Connor McDavid sign this summer will dictate other young player salaries going forward.
- stammerman

Dont think Kuch will earn more than our captain. Especially not as Stammer signed as a UFa and Kuch is RFA. Even if Kuch get two straight 100pts seasons, $10.5M is to much. Chicago is really feeling that pain right now. 8x8 seems like a good middleground if he continues his development and keep producing elite numbers.

I agree we are fine with Kucherov and his resign, don't know why so many think we won't be able to afford him. Callahan's NMC becomes I think a 12team no trade list the last two of his deal. I am sure Stevie Y will move Callahan if he needs the cap space for Kuch. Cally's 5.8 + Kuch's 4.76 = 10.56M

But we need to see how Kucherov performs over the next two years to dictate his salary. If he stays a point per game producer and his numbers rival that of Stamkos over the next two years I think he will get 8.5 - 9.5. If he goes to the next step and say gets to a 90-100 point player then 10.5 Patrick Kane here we come. I also think that the deals both Leon Draisaitl and Connor McDavid sign this summer will dictate other young player salaries going forward.
- stammerman

I agree with this but both of those players are traditional centermans (Draisaitl played on wing with McDavid this year only because of how potent that line was) and centerman tend to command bigger contracts. We also cant forget that we have a huge bargaining chip regarding taxes, so it takes less to get more.

To get on topic: I really hope some defensive help comes from a trade. Or a second pairing guy on a cheap FA contract. Alzner and Shatty for big dollars arent that sexy in my mind.

I would like to see a trade for a costcontrolled guy like Methot, Dumba, Trouba, Samheim, Faulk instead (some would need new contracts next year, but would be less then a FA signing). We have a good pipeline of prospects and can give up some picks for imediate help to contend next year.

I think Yzerman signs Johnson for around 4-5 years at a higher cap hit around 5.5M and signs Palat for 6-7 years with a cap hit around 5.25M. I think Johnson gets a shorter deal due to the amount of Centers in the Lightning system that will eventually be vying for playing time. But I also think they might start Johnson out on the RW with Palat LW and Point as the Center as TJ can play RW as well. Going to be interesting to see how everything shakes out.
- stammerman

If Johnson gets more money than Palat Yzerman needs a vacation. I don't think Johnson is a priority at all, I think Palat is more important to the team. If I'm Yzerman I don't give Johnson more than $4m per year for any amount of time, he is easily replaced in this organization.

To get on topic: I really hope some defensive help comes from a trade. Or a second pairing guy on a cheap FA contract. Alzner and Shatty for big dollars arent that sexy in my mind.

I would like to see a trade for a costcontrolled guy like Methot, Dumba, Trouba, Samheim, Faulk instead (some would need new contracts next year, but would be less then a FA signing). We have a good pipeline of prospects and can give up some picks for imediate help to contend next year.
- Cloud

I think the price for these players via trade is going to be too steep IMO, Id like to see us get a veteran guy who can play a 4/5 role and let the young guys get time on D. I worry that we will trade away too much offense to get those guys. If we could move Killorn and pick and prospect and net one of those player, id be fine with that. I just dont think that will happen with how loop-sided the Dman market is. The Hamonic trade was insane and id hate to see us over pay in a trade and cripple ourselves in a different way trying to fix a weakness.

If Johnson gets more money than Palat Yzerman needs a vacation. I don't think Johnson is a priority at all, I think Palat is more important to the team. If I'm Yzerman I don't give Johnson more than $4m per year for any amount of time, he is easily replaced in this organization.
- Kucherovski

Its about term. I am saying that Palat gets 7 years and TJ 5 years. The extra two years for Palat brings the AAV of his contract down to be lower overall. Johnson is going to get more then Killorn he will get $5M at least. To me he is worth $5M no more but he has arbitration rights.

I agree with this but both of those players are traditional centermans (Draisaitl played on wing with McDavid this year only because of how potent that line was) and centerman tend to command bigger contracts. We also cant forget that we have a huge bargaining chip regarding taxes, so it takes less to get more.
- headyhedman77

Even though McDavid and Draisaitl are Centers they will dictate the market for all other players. How much it affects Kuch in 2 years I don't know.

Its about term. I am saying that Palat gets 7 years and TJ 5 years. The extra two years for Palat brings the AAV of his contract down to be lower overall. Johnson is going to get more then Killorn he will get $5M at least. To me he is worth $5M no more but he has arbitration rights.
- stammerman

Johnson is worth $5M? A small center in his mid 20's who year over year plays less games? Killorn is making too much too so can't really talk about him but look at a guy like Barkov. A year ago he signed for just over $5m per year and he is 5 years younger and puts up very similar numbers. You may be right on what Johnson gets but I think it is a bad move for the organization to give him $5m per year for 5 years, that's a bad contract that they will have a hard time in a year or two getting out of.

Even though McDavid and Draisaitl are Centers they will dictate the market for all other players. How much it affects Kuch in 2 years I don't know.
- stammerman

I dont believe this. Kane and Toews got monster contracts 3 years ago, and not a single player has been near getting the same money. Kopitar is alot like Toews, both had 2 cups when they signed. Kopitar got 8.

McDavid is out of this world. No matter how much we love Kuch, he aint on Connors level.

I think the price for these players via trade is going to be too steep IMO, Id like to see us get a veteran guy who can play a 4/5 role and let the young guys get time on D. I worry that we will trade away too much offense to get those guys. If we could move Killorn and pick and prospect and net one of those player, id be fine with that. I just dont think that will happen with how loop-sided the Dman market is. The Hamonic trade was insane and id hate to see us over pay in a trade and cripple ourselves in a different way trying to fix a weakness.
- headyhedman77

I agree Dumba, Trouba will be way to much.

But I think we can land a Scandella or Methot much cheaper. The Wild do have cap issues they need to move one of Brodin or Scandella to resign Granlund and Nino. They will be looking for futures and picks which is doable for the Bolts, and on Method the Knights need to move him that was their plan but he is refusing trades so far but maybe he sees Tampa as a place to win and will accept a trade and only dealing with 1 team limits Vegas's bargaining power.

Its going to be interesting, its obvious Stevie Y is not done - I have no clue how it will play out.

I dont believe this. Kane and Toews got monster contracts 3 years ago, and not a single player has been near getting the same money. Kopitar is alot like Toews, both had 2 cups when they signed. Kopitar got 8.

McDavid is out of this world. No matter how much we love Kuch, he aint on Connors level.
- Cloud

McDavid sets the market which affects all players after who want new deals. You cannot ask for more then he gets. Say he gets 12M no other player can ask for that so it lowers the bar to say 10M asking price. So now Kuch can only ask for say 10M and the Bolts counter with 8.5MX8. Something like that, once the 1 star sets the market premium it will affect all other contracts for young up and coming players. That is all I am saying.

Johnson is worth $5M? A small center in his mid 20's who year over year plays less games? Killorn is making too much too so can't really talk about him but look at a guy like Barkov. A year ago he signed for just over $5m per year and he is 5 years younger and puts up very similar numbers. You may be right on what Johnson gets but I think it is a bad move for the organization to give him $5m per year for 5 years, that's a bad contract that they will have a hard time in a year or two getting out of.
- Kucherovski

In today's NHL he is worth $5M due to supply and demand of the salary cap. It would not upset me to see him traded, he is not a core piece to me and I would like to see him get less then $5M. But that said the market dictates and Killorn's contract dictate that he will get $5M. Toffoli got 4.6M over 3 years, he has similar numbers to TJ but plays the wing. Last year Jaden Schartz got 5.35M for similar numbers and he is a left wing as well. So basically Palat and Johnson to me should fall somewhere around these guys numbers. We should know soon enough. Maybe they take a discount to stay that would be nice.

I dont believe this. Kane and Toews got monster contracts 3 years ago, and not a single player has been near getting the same money. Kopitar is alot like Toews, both had 2 cups when they signed. Kopitar got 8.

McDavid is out of this world. No matter how much we love Kuch, he aint on Connors level.
- Cloud

Kopi got 8 yrs at 10 mill per year... just to clarify

Johnson is worth $5M? A small center in his mid 20's who year over year plays less games? Killorn is making too much too so can't really talk about him but look at a guy like Barkov. A year ago he signed for just over $5m per year and he is 5 years younger and puts up very similar numbers. You may be right on what Johnson gets but I think it is a bad move for the organization to give him $5m per year for 5 years, that's a bad contract that they will have a hard time in a year or two getting out of.
- Kucherovski

five years at 5 mill isnt a bad contract when you are buying all those UFA years. I agree he is expendable but if you look at what other teams are paying for a 2C right now that is not a bad contract. I have other concerns regarding Johnson, his injury history and decline in production for example. But for someone who has played a 2C role and done a fairly decent job at it, a 5x5 contract is not bad.

This is not entirely true because Callahan will be coming off the books the year after kuch gets his big contract. Wont surprise me at all if he gets trades in the last year of his deal as a salary dump to make room for Kuch. Id be surprised if SY gives him any more then his current contract plus Callahans deal, considering that would be over 10 mill. I think SY ultimate plan is to get him to take the same deal Stammer did (optimistic i know) which i think would work well for the team.
- headyhedman77

I fully expect Callahan to be gone or LTIR'ed by that point. I didn't mean it as "they're completely screwed by the cap in two years" I just think they're best chance to field one complete team to run for the cup is before he gets his extension. I like a lot of their prospects too and if guys like Point keep getting important minutes they'll be needing more money as well.

The cap picture is MUCH clearer now than it was before the Filppula trade. Getting from there to here seemed harder than doing what we are talking about in 2 years

five years at 5 mill isnt a bad contract when you are buying all those UFA years. I agree he is expendable but if you look at what other teams are paying for a 2C right now that is not a bad contract. I have other concerns regarding Johnson, his injury history and decline in production for example. But for someone who has played a 2C role and done a fairly decent job at it, a 5x5 contract is not bad.
- headyhedman77

On top of that he has actually played quite of bit of 1C due to Stamkos's injuries. Saying that I hope Stamkos stays healthy gets his 40 goals / 70+ points this year and I will be happy.